358 norma magnum vs 35 whelen

Is the .358 Norma Magnum a cartridge destined to make a huge comeback? If you happen to have a .35 and don't mind the extra recoil, there is no denying that it will flat get the job done. Griffin & Howe developed the semiwildcat .350 G&H based on the .375 H&H case, as well as pioneering the .35 Whelen. .470 Nitro Express. I am also looking at building a 358 Norma Mag on a model 110 Savage action, formerly a 300 Win mag, and start from scratch with the stock ( bedding and pillar) and make it a tolerable shooter even if a bit heavy. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. From left: (1) .35 Remington, (2) .358 Winchester and (3) .358 Norma Magnum. Too bad Ingemar Johansson was not so well equipped. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. The experimentation with the H&H cases, first by Weatherby and later by Winchester and Remington, certainly changed the way we hunted and made our purchases; magnum mania definitely took root. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. Moderate, safe, bland and predictable. As Ive said, I like mediums, such as the unpopular 8mm Remington Magnum and the faster .33s. Essentially the .338 Winchester Magnum necked up to hold .358-inch bullets, the .358 Norma Magnum made all sorts of sense to a hunter in pursuit of large game, such as elk, moose and the great bears of the north. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. Wolfe Publishing Company | 2180 Gulfstream Suite A | Prescott, AZ 86301. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. A medium variable in the 3-9X or 2.5-10X range should be enough scope for elk hunting. The .350 Remington Magnum is the only cartridge that appears on both lists of current and obsolete calibers. Quite a difference! Either way, the Newton is the unbelted twin of the .358 Norma. Kevin Steele of Petersen's HUNTING is with Dawn Wehunt of Rock River Arms INC. learning about the new Ascendant platform. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. Twenty years ago, I might have said .338 Winchester Magnum was the perfect choice for elk. It was verry expensive to shoot, lots of powder and expensive bullets and brass. It can be the ballistic equivalent of the .30-06 with a 180-grain bullet or, pushed the other way, it can easily match the velocity of the .300 Weatherby Magnum with the same weight bullet. They are a little short initially and after two firings they were just fine. Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. That list, by the way, is in ascending order of power. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. For this reason, anyone acquiring a .358 Norma should start low with every load and work up slowly and carefully. I wont go so far as to say thats foolish, but theres a major difference in size and toughness between a cow or spike and a mature bull. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Still have a 9.3 (so I guess it "won"). As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. a good brush buster and good to 300 yards. Of the three, only the .358 Norma has not become a standard chambering. No matter if its books, art or hunting cartridges, its only those with a deep understanding of the subject who can fully understand the greatness often buried in obscurity. up to 0.358 inches and dubbed it the poor mans magnum.. These are elk cartridges, and as Jack Atcheson Jr. likes to say, the .338 numbs them. The .358 Norma Magnum, like the .358 Shooting Times Alaskan, generates a considerable amount of energy, but due to the caliber restrictions for dangerous game of most of the African countries, it falls shy of the markthe .375-inch bore is minimum for many countries. People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. The main problem with such potent cartridges is that they kick hard in rifles light enough to carry all day in steep places. Mag. The bullet went in behind the near shoulder, struck the far shoulder from the inside, and the blue bull hit the ground with a thud. For a while Savage chambered it in the Model 99, and I am still looking for one I can afford. I took it to Texas in 1989 and decked a nilgai at about 90 yards. Ive seen many elk taken cleanly with a .270 Winchester, and my own longest shot on an elk was on a big New Mexico bull at 400 yards using a .270 Winchester with a 150-grain Nosler Partitionone step and down. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. The Newton was supposedly loaded, by Western Cartridge, to 2,975 fps with a 250-grain bullet, but I, for one, would want to see the chronograph reading. The 35 whelen and 358 winchester were the two I was torn between. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. On a 600 pound animal like a big bull elk the optimum game range of the .308 (180 grain bullet at a MV of 2610 fps) is a useful 175 yards. With todays interest in long-range shooting, big scopes are in, but powerful scopes add weight. Even so, most experienced deer hunters have pretty good ideas on appropriate rifles. The M700 has been a popular action for building a rifle in .358 STA, a wildcat based on the 8mm Remington Magnum. Not necessarily top dollar everything. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. With such a variety of bullets, you would think the skys the limit in terms of different loads, but there are other factors to consider. I am not into the current long-range fad, especially on powerful animals like elk. Publisher of Petersen's HUNTING magazine, Kevin Steele is at the Steiner Optics booth with Alberto Corbetta to discuss the Predator 4 and Predator 8. Your at the old delema again: does 200 fps matter to the deer. Compare the Queen of the .35's, the .350 Remington Magnum--the original short (.308 length) magnum cartridge--with the new generation of short action magnums. 35 Whelen. Short of a wounded elephant or Cape buffalo in thick cover, there is no game I can think of for which you could not concoct a load in the .358. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. Far more alternatives, in fact, than exist in several more popular caliber families. Pet Loads and Handloader are registered trademarks of Wolfe Publishing Company. Think of the .358 Norma Magnum as the chunky cousin of the .338 Winchester Magnum; not quite as svelte or popular, but equally effective in a fight. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. Im going to rule out short-range cartridges that have the power because theres no sense in making the shot more difficult than necessary. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. Elk bullets must be tough enough to provide adequate penetration. Synthetic stocks arent always lighter than wood, but they are stronger and more stable, and elk hunting can be hard on rifles. It put an exclamation point on that lung shot. On June 26, 1959, Sweden's Ingemar Johansson demolished Floyd Patterson in the third round of their first heavyweight title fight in New York. Maybe it's a regular BDL? from the 24" barrel of a Marlin 336XLR rifle. Honestly, the concept of being overgunned is somewhat mystifying to me, provided you can place the shot. The .358 Norma established its reputation in high-end hunting rifles like this Schultz & Larsen Model 65DL. Mag. Don't like Rugers much had my fill of them and now they are gone down the road. We've got you covered. .22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9 mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. It will work in this action with ease and will be plenty cheap to feed and use if one simply sizes up 338 brass and goes along thier happy way. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. To return to our boxing analogy, the .358 Norma Magnum not only has the Hammer of Thor, but it also offers an excellent jab, a good hook, a wicked uppercut and a variety of feints. Not so the .358 Norma. With such a wide range of both cast and jacketed bullets available, and todays variety in powders, the .358 Norma has an embarrassment of riches when it comes to load possibilities. when fired in a 7.5 pound rifle. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. The bullet was the then-new Trophy Bonded 250-grain Bear Claw. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. Even the obscure .358 Norma Magnum is the most efficient of the belted-magnum cartridges [note - by the author's own data the 350 Remington Magnum bests the 358 Norma]. There are several reasons. If the .35 Rem. Although such weight is rare, a big bull can exceed 1,000 pounds. Where the .338 Winchester drives its 250-grain bullet to 2650 fps, the .358 Norma beats that figure by 100 fps or so, delivering over 4,200 ft.-lbs. My favorite hunting round. I have become a 35 cal. of muzzle energy. Kali Parmley, Editor-in-chief of Bakccountry Hunter speaks with Bret Maffet of Franchi Firearms to discuss the all new Momentum All Terrain Elite. This is because it was discontinued in the mid-1970s, and reintroduced by Remington in 2003. So we see that even with a one pound lighter rifle, the .358 recoils slightly less than a .300 magnum. Any listing you find for H-4895 can be modified by loading only 60 percent of the published minimum to create some very comfortable loads. Mag. The .350 can drive a 250 grain bullet to a MV of 2500 fps. Norma loads their 250-grain Oryx bullet to this velocity, and as the rear portion of the bullet is bonded, it will give an excellent blend of expansion and penetration. All in, it weighed over 11 pounds, which is too heavy. You can start with the 6.5mms. The big case certainly made its reputation with the 250-grain bullets, as their sectional density gives excellent penetration on even the heavy-boned animals, and the .358 Norma can push them to a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. He, too, could have been one of the greats. Throw a belt on the .35 Newton and you couldnt tell the difference three feet away. to achieve its potential. As a result of all this activity, .358-inch diameter jacketed rifle bullets are available in a wide range of weights and styles, from 150-grain semipointed to 200- grain roundnose, all the way up to 310 grains for the heaviest game. This is basically a deer and black bear (CXP2 class game) cartridge, although it is reputed to be superior to cartridges in the .30-30 class for game weighing over about 400 pounds. In Johanssons case, disdain for serious training left him vulnerable when the superbly conditioned Patterson came back a year later, gave him a dazzling boxing lesson and reclaimed the title. I had the privilege of spending some time with a 1917 vintage take-down Rigby-Mauser rifle while on a hunt in Scotland, and the words sweet shooting came quickly to mind. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. For the next year, comparisons were inevitable between Johanssons Hammer of Thor and the .358s powerful 250-grain bullet. And the hunter must have full confidence in his or her choice. We've got you covered. .450 Nitro Express .17 Hornet 7mm STW 6.8 Western .375 Ruger .223 Remington6.5x55 Swedish .416 Remington Magnum .300 Winchester Short Magnum 28 Nosler 6.5 PRC .22 WMR .458 Winchester Magnum .204 Ruger .22 Hornet .280 Ackley Improved .240 Weatherby Magnum .458 Lott.264 Winchester Magnum.348 Winchester.33 Nosler.260 Remington.30-30 Winchester.416 Rigby.358 Norma Magnum.22 LR7mm-08 Remington8mm Remington Magnum.338 Federal.224 Valkyrie.338-06 A-Square9.3x62mm Mauser.257 Weatherby Magnum.45-70 Government.300 H&H Magnum.25-06 Remington.30-06 Springfield6.5 Creedmoor.300 Remington Ultra Magnum7mm Remington Magnum.470 Nitro Express.280 Remington.300 Winchester Magnum.270 Winchester.222 Remington.45 ACP.404 Jeffery.44 Remington Magnum.41 Remington Magnum.243 Winchester.338 Winchester Magnum.357 S&W Magnum6.5-284 Norma8x57 Mauser.38 Smith & Wesson Special7x57mm Mauser9mm Luger.35 Whelen.454 Casull.375 H&H Magnum.45 Colt.22-250 Remington10mm Auto.308 Winchester. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. In fact, the recoil of the .358 Norma Magnum, at about 35 ft. lbs. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. I bought it as a moose rifle but never got drawn in ten years. But starting in the late 1950s, the .338 bore size gained considerable tractionthanks to the emergence of the .338 Winchester Magnum. Blocker Outdoors Finisher gloves, headcovers and other accessories are available in Mossy Oak Bottomland and Mossy Oak Obsession NWTF camouflage patterns to match various turkey hunting terrain. Released in 1959though there were no factory chambered rifles or factory loaded ammunition available for the new cartridgeNorma offered chamber reamers and new component brass for its new brainchild. Most rifle elk hunting is not like bowhunting during the bugling season. The .318 Westley Richards was a highly popular choice at that time, and it drives a 250-grain bullet of .330-inch diameter, with a SD of 0.328, and the .375 Holland & Holland uses a 300-grain bullet of nominal diameter with a SD of 0.305; both are renowned for their penetration. 358 Norma runs 250gr partitions at 2810 with Norma 204 powder. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. These were, primarily, the Schultz & Larsen (Denmark), the Husqvarna (Sweden) and a few Browning High Powers made by FN in Belgium. As a "stopper" for use on dangerous game the .358 Norma is clearly superior to the .300 Magnums. That year, Remington also brought out the Model 673 Guide Gun in .350 Rem Mag. However, should a hunter who enjoys using cartridges that arent among the most popular find a rifle chambered for the .358 Norma Magnum? However, Winchesters .338 Magnum proved to be the darling of not only those bound for the 49th state, but for those hunting elk and moose at lower latitudes. Here the elk offers hunters an advantage because the vital zone, like body size, is at least twice that of any deer. A 358Norma is a good fit for this action. They have almost all abandoned the cartridge. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. The .350 Magnum has a case length of 2.742 inches, and an overall cartridge length 3.44 inches, so it will feel at home in a magnum-length receiver. Make no mistake, the .30-06 is a powerful cartridge, but it doesnt beat you to death and can be built in the seven- to eight-pound range. The parent of this cartridge is the .30-06 Springfield, which is necked-up to accept a bullet diameter of .358 in (9.1 mm).This cartridge is more powerful than its parent, especially in killing power on large game. Mag. The only rifles I can find in production are from Nosler, Remington and CVA. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. Contributor Brad Fenson takes to the grill, to cook up some delicious venison burgers. For more specialized uses, Speer makes a 180-grain flatpoint (semispitzer)that, with reduced loads, turns the .358 Norma Magnum into a pussycat for recoil but is easily capable of handling game such as black bears and white-tailed deer out to 250 yards or so. I've owned several Magnum Mediums338 RUM, 340WBY, 375 H&H, 375 WBY, 358NM, 338WM. Mag. That does not mean that any gunsmith who had his own ideas about velocity and accuracy might not include it or go completely the other way. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. Heres a detailed look at each step of the process. For example, take the most powerful of the factory standardized .35's, the .358 Norma Magnum. That is quite a few cartridges considering that there is not a single best selling rifle cartridge in the bunch. This load uses a 200 grain Flex-Tip spitzer bullet and delivers a MV of 2225 fps and ME of 2198 ft. lbs. Bottles & 12-oz. They truly were ahead of their time, as they were short magnums back when being a short magnum wasnt cool. Read today's "The Armed Citizen" entry for real stories of law-abiding citizens, past and present, who used their firearms to save lives. bruce. Any of these will handle just about any big game one might hunt with a .358 Norma, where you want to employ its ample knockdown power. I have built all 3 several times for various customers and owned both the 358 Norma and the 9.3X62. The writings of Robert Ruark certainly helped the reputation of the cartridge and the company, as Ruark put his young PH Harry Selby and the .416 Rigby rifle he carried on a pedestal. Thanks for any thoughts. Common loads fire a 200-grain bullet at 2,800 fps (about 3,480 foot pounds of energy), a 225-grain bullet at around 2,600fps (3,380 foot pounds of energy . For anyone with an experimental or fanciful turn of mind, the .358 Norma and the many .358-inch diameter bullets are a gold mine. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. Today, rifles can be made very light, but that can also be overdone because light rifles are whippy and hard to control when youre out of breath and have to settle in for a quick shot. Somehow, years ago, I got the notion that it is not prudent to be opening the bolt face of a 700 from standard (270W) to magnum (358N). Mark Bansner is making one for me: synthetic stock on a left-hand Sako action. Mag. It shoots well and is light and easy to carry while hunting. [1] Energy figures have it knocking at the door of 375H&H. The classic .350 Rigby Magnum load pushes a .358-inch diameter 225-grain bullet to a muzzle velocity of 2625 fps for 3,440 ft.-lbs. Mag. Kevin Steele stops by the Taurus booth to speak with Cody Osborn about the all new Raging Hunter platform from Taurus International. In the entry on the .358 Norma, it maintains that, had Norma convinced a major American riflemaker to offer the chambering in the early years, it could have become one of the greats. But there is another Rigby cartridge, vastly overlooked even among rifle cranks, but which was at one time as popular as the .375 H&H Magnum: the .350 Rigby Magnum. Nosler offers the .350 Rem. Copyright 2003, 2012 by Chuck Hawks. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Bertram Brass from Australia is a good source when you can get it, and Quality Cartridge makes a run of .350 Rigby every few years, but you could be waiting a considerable amount of time. I have one, of course, and it is fun to shoot, but I would never use it on a serious big-game hunt. However, the small bore cartridges from .24 to .32 caliber have proven quite reliable on these smaller animals, so I am not going to argue that anyone needs a .35 to hunt CXP2 class game. During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. All rights reserved. What keeps it alive? Winchester introduced its initial trio of belted magnums in the mid-1950sthe .458 Winchester Magnum, .338 Winchester Magnum and .264 Winchester Magnumand all were designed for the long-action receiver, using a case length equal or similar to the .30-06 Springfield. Most were intended for .38-caliber handguns, but any bullet made for either the .38 Special or .357 Magnum can be loaded and shot in the .358 Norma Magnum with varying degrees of success. The most popular cartridges for hunting and even target shooting begin and end with the thirties. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. In both cartridges, versatility is limited more by the narrow range of bullets available than by any other factor. The cartridge would be championed by Denys Finch Hatton (of Out of Africa fame), John Pondoro Taylor and Pete Pearson, and would be used by Baron Bror von Blixen-Fineke as well. The .357 Magnum revolver cartridge has also gained considerable popularity as a combination rifle/pistol cartridge and lever action rifles for the .357 Magnum sell pretty well. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. It is a good choice for shooters who are very sensitive to recoil, since its free recoil energy is only about 4.5 ft. lbs. I have one, and I like it a lot. Of the bullets used, several performed extremely well, including the Bear Claw and a Nosler 250-grain Partition. Subscriber Services. it is complicated further by a requirement for different burning rate powders. There are specialized situations where close shots are the norm, but most often, the ideal elk rifle should have enough versatility for shots out to 300 yards and change. X-Vision Optics long-range ImpactThermal Scope (TS300) boasts a 640 x 480 thermal sensor that can detect big game well past 3,000 yards. They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. The Remington Model 673 Guide Rifle was chambered in .350 Rem. Another vote for something different.The 358 STA would be the one. Can't really imagine one cartridge doing anything the other couldn't, though the availability of bigger bullets and way more factory ammo (if wanted) are definite pluses for the Mauser. In the years since, the .35 Rem. 9.3x62 boots 320gr Woodleigh protected points and weldcore round noses out at 2400 fps with RL-17. I have needed to reach 400 yards, but never a whole bunch farther. Kevin Steele from Petersen's HUNTING speaks to Jordan Egli of Burris Optics about the all-new Veracity PH Riflescope. The .358 in a bolt-action rifle with a good scope is as accurate as any hunting cartridge available. Had the .358 Norma Magnum been chambered in an American rifle, or at least promoted by an American company, the popularity of the cartridge may have been much greater than it is. This list gives some idea of the .358 Normas status today: Those rifles rarely seem to come on the market. Im voting no. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. lbs. I believe it never will. It was an 03 Springfield action, unknown barrel, very nice piece of wood, all the fancy metal work done (custom trigger, side safety ala Rem 700, cocking knob and safety removed, milled floorplate, forged bolt, speedloader slots removed, D&T'd ,polished and blued). There is certainly no lack of .358-inch diameter bullets to choose from but brass is limited. Since lack of a gas seal in a low-pressure load is more of a nuisance than a danger, it can be ignored if you dont mind the soot. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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