kerdi membrane over cement board
This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! If you are looking for a way to minimize height buildup and eliminate a large level difference at thresholds, a mat product is a good solution. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Your email address will not be published. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. In jobsite conditions and over a long time, who knows. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. The site is called floorelf.com. All it takes is the right preparation. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. They are square. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Why is this the case? I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Make sure the floor is level in the shower. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? Why you use cement board? Yup! Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. It may take more than 1 beer:). Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. This is the traditional tile backer. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. If there is no blocking behind the seam, i would just tape prior to installing the membrane, the thinset will fill the seam and embed the mesh. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. 4. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. To line niche shelves, for instance. When applying the primer, make sure to cover all surfaces thoroughly, as these will be completely covered by the KERDI membrane. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Install the drain adapter, if needed. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. . Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Caulk the gap. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. 173 upvotes. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. x 96 in. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. We recommend our users to update the browser. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. Hi.I have a unique situation. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. I also used the Kerdi drain. . But there are downsides. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Installation; As the GoBoard is very lightweight, it becomes easy to . No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Some being easier to work with than others. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. ! Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. We want that inside corner able to move. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? that's home depot homeowner installation method. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. Gettin' a little delirious. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. A place where magic is studied and practiced? Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. x 60 in. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Install an Uncoupling Membrane Between Concrete and Tile. It doesn't matter but you absolutely need to use both a substrate and a waterproofing membrane. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Will add it in. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. I simply sponge off the excess. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. I agree that gypsum seems very questionable anywhere in the wet areas of a shower. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. LONDON. As fiber cement board is similar to regular cement board, it makes sense to choose the one that is cheaper or more readily available. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered.