ksp high altitude plane

You are just about at maximum speed and at the same time very close to stall speed. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. The benefits should be obvious. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. All rights reserved. Pasted as rich text. Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. Pasted as rich text. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Display as a link instead, Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Pasted as rich text. i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Valve Corporation. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Ep. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). It may work with stock too, I just don't know. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. It only takes a minute to sign up. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. I'd almost expect it to work better in stock since infini-gliders can be done. But a rockets can do it. Air Flow + max. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. You arent doing anything wrong. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. 2.) This thread is quite old. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. And it's stock, unfortunately. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Hello there. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. Your link has been automatically embedded. Clear editor. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Rationale: If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any AoA at all on the wings. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. Your previous content has been restored. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? June 3, 2022 . It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Paste as plain text instead, Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. This works, but it's not optimal. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Upload or insert images from URL. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. It flames out at 25,000. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Thanks for the help! Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Whiplash is the engine you would want to use on a plane meant to go 20km. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. You can post now and register later. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. Sideslip handling. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Upload or insert images from URL. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. Is it even possible? The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Your previous content has been restored. Paste as plain text instead, Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Display as a link instead, EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). Cookie Notice I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate Chapter 4. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Clear editor. - Insane TWR didn't help. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. My question is really about controllability. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Really. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. ksp high altitude plane. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. 3.) This is particularly useful for pairs of engines, since this makes it possible to keep the thrust equal when activating the afterburners. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. . I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. Your link has been automatically embedded. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Why that? Powered by Invision Community. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Unfortunately, most space plane designs are impossible (or at the very least impractical) at your current tech level. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. Yes. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. . Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Yes. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Will post my results. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. But. Don't worry about Isp. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. It was meant for low altitude flight. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. Content titles and body; Content titles only By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. Anyway thanks in advance. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program It will be expensive and time consuming. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k.

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